Gasoline Tax to Fix Roads in California

"Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo" (rustyvandura) 06/10/2017 at 08:46 • Filed to: None

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I don’t consider myself to be “strongly liberal,” but a pay-as-you-go model to fix roads and bridges makes sense to me as a general concept. (This sets aside considerations of how the money is managed or spent by jackass politicians...)

Janis Joplin and her beautiful 1965 Porsche 356 C 1600 Cabriolet for your time...

The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 08:47

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I’m yet to see the gas tax do anything here in Ontario.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 08:56

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PA raised their gas tax to one of the highest in the nation. What’s it going to pay for? New construction at some small regional airports, among other things. It’s frustrating.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > The Crazy Kanuck; RIP Oppositelock 06/10/2017 at 08:56

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It made you pay more for gas... so that’s something!

/jk

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 08:57

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If they wanted to be completely fair, they would do a combination of weight * distance driven per year. But I suspect implementing such a tax would drive up the delivery costs of consumer goods, and no one wants that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Manwich - now Keto-Friendly 06/10/2017 at 09:26

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TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 09:27

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In Louisiana, gas tax hasn’t been raised in 28 years and it isn’t earmarked for transportation, so it goes into the general fund to be spent wherever they like. They tried to increase it this year, but failed. The proposed bill was a little steep, but it restricted all of the funds to the DOT. We are facing $700 million of infrastructure repairs and improvements which cannot be done without additional funding. Even worse, the DOT is predicting we will not be able to match the federal funds for current projects and we are going to lose that funding too.

http://www.theadvocate.com/baton_rouge/news/politics/legislature/article_a2b94c9e-39aa-11e7-adfa-cfcae5dfc150.html

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind 06/10/2017 at 09:28

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Pennsylvania is an interesting state to drive in with so many rural roads, weather, coal trucks, and so on. And Trump voters... Damn! I HATE it when that happens! (Seriously: I have lots of family in PA — Somerset County — and some deep political divisions...)

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > BaconSandwich is tasty. 06/10/2017 at 09:29

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Won’t per-gallon tax do just the same?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/10/2017 at 09:33

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Are you in Louisiana? I spent three years at Fort Polk from ‘84 to ‘90. Interesting experience. We were something like 100 miles of bad road from the nearest Interstate, which was a terrible road. I visited Shreveport several times and enjoyed it.

Fort Polk: gnarly weather, scorpions, cockroaches, and so many bugs on the sidewalks in the summertime that your feet went crunch crunch crunch as you walked. At night, where the lights shown in circles in the parking lots, the circles would be brown with bugs.

AfromanGTO > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 09:45

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Gas taxes should only be invested in roads. It shouldn’t go anywhere else. Look at what the govt did to social security. The politicians saw the money being used for exactly what is what meant for, then said jackass politicians decided they should use that money for section 8 and welfare, and now we hear on the news social security may not be around for another X years. If they only used it what is was designed for it would last a heck of a lot longer.

I am curious though about electric and hybrid cars with these fuel taxes. Should electric and hybrid cars be given a road tax every year, so the state can invest only in roads? Or do away with fuel taxes and give all cars a road tax?

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > AfromanGTO 06/10/2017 at 09:49

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How the money is used and managed I’d hoped to filter from the discussion, though I agree with you completely. Completely.

With regard to the hybrid cars, well, they’re buying gas, so they’re paying the tax. Electric cars aren’t buying gas and wouldn’t pay the tax, and as of yet, amount to essentially nill of traffic on the roads. The story in the Sacramento Bee that I posted says there’s also a registration assessment as part of the legislation.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 09:53

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I’m not a native, but I’ve been in the Baton Rouge area for almost ten years. I-49 now connects I-10 to I-20. I’ve seen an exit to Fort Polk, so it’s not as rural as it used to be.

Junkrat aka Rick Sanchez: Fury Road Edition > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/10/2017 at 10:13

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You’ve seen the exit, it’s still an hour away from the exit. Ft. Polk is outside of Leesville, you are probably closer to the 10 than the 49.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 10:15

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Not really because trucks cause disproportionally more damage than they pay per gas used.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 06/10/2017 at 10:23

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I’d wondered about that.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/10/2017 at 10:24

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I took a look at the map. When we went overland to get out of Vernon Parish, it was typically to the airport in Houston and the advent of I-49 wouldn’t be any help.

facw > AfromanGTO 06/10/2017 at 10:26

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It often makes sense to spend it on transit. Those users aren’t paying the tax (or are paying much less), but removing people from roads still benefits motorists. It’s pretty clear that adding roads does not alleviate congestion in the long term, it just encourages people to live even farther out, while adding transit does actually get those people off the road, and encourages more sustainable high density cities.

facw > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 10:32

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I’m always surprised about the number of people who want a mileage tax to deal with electrics (and even hybrids, who don’t pay their “fair share”). As far as I can tell, the people proposing them mainly want to stick it to liberals, without thinking about how well a new tax, and one that requires at least a small degree of tracking (some want full GPS tracking) would go over. And of course the big freeloaders are in the trucking industry, because the damage done to roads is not linear with weight. Something will need to be done eventually, but right now it make sense to just raise gas taxes, and if hybrids and electrics get off easy, that will just spur adoption, which obviously we feel is desirable given that we’ve been giving a large credit for their purchase.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 10:44

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I thought it was further east, but I see your point. I haven’t driven in that area. Most of my rural driving in LA has been to the north through Mississippi.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > facw 06/10/2017 at 10:49

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Spur adoption. Concur.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > TheRealBicycleBuck 06/10/2017 at 10:54

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I just looked at the Google Earth imagery of Ft. Polk (Ft. Puke ). The cell blocks where we lived are all gone, but the maintenance shop where I worked still stands. I definitely experience some emotions when I think about Fort Polk. I was 19, and that was the first time and place that I lived away from my parents’ house and while I had some good times, I can’t look back on the time with much happiness. Military service leaves an indelible mark and in those days, it was easy, relative to these days. I got out in 1990 and I still have Army dreams today — had one just the other night, in fact -- and nobody was shooting at me and nobody died. Typically in those dreams I am dropped back into life in the barracks and I can’t find the bits I need for my uniform and I’m going to have to be away from my family for a spell of time.

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 11:29

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I don’t like the logic. If you are going to force drivers to pay for roads and bridges, then public transportation should be paid for by its riders.

I agree with the folks who point out that driver taxes should go towards fixing the roads, not other things but I also think that there are much larger budgetary issues. California specifically collects taxes at a prolific rate and yet it has some of our country’s worst social problems (drugs and homelessness), roads, and public transit. All this you would expect if the state were poor, but it’s not. The economy is huge. Systematically, this state leaks money like a cracked oil pan. There’s massive corruption, entire departments that don’t meet a sniff test, and no one really seems to care. It’s the Italy of the USA. Beautiful and inherently broken.

TheRealBicycleBuck > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 11:39

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I never did a stint in the military, but I know what you mean. This is the first time I’ve lived in a single place more than 6 years and yet it still doesn’t feel like my home. With my mother’s recent illness and passing I spent more time back home than I have since I left for college. It left me feeling nostalgic for a lot of things.

My bird IS the word > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 11:42

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Well, it hasn’t gone up in a long time in most locales. I don’t mind a gas tax, as long as it isn’t punishing. I consider gas as just a cost of the hobby.

BaconSandwich is tasty. > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 12:00

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I’m not sure about down that way, but up here I’ve seen plenty of roads - especially intersections where the weight of large trucks waiting at red lights has caused some pretty severe indentations in the road. So much so, that in places like Lloydminster they replaced asphalt in intersections with concrete. You don’t get that same sort of wear and tear with passenger vehicles.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > Nick Has an Exocet 06/10/2017 at 12:01

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I like your Italy analogy. Isn’t public transportation supposed to be paid for by the riders when they pay their fares? But yes, I think it should.

duurtlang > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 06/10/2017 at 12:10

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Increase/add yearly registration tax for vehicles that are overly heavy and reduce it for overly light weight vehicles. Or simply something that increases exponentially with weight. $5 for a Yaris, $20 for a Corolla, $1000 for a Tahoe or similar. Purely weight based, independent of age or value (classics exempt).

For the really heavy stuff: increase the tax on diesel more than the one on gasoline.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > My bird IS the word 06/10/2017 at 12:16

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I think it makes sense in the abstract, but one size never fits all and politicians tend to mismanage most of what they touch.

Nick Has an Exocet > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 12:46

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Thanks. It should be. Unfortunately, it seems to come out of just about anywhere - random city taxes, county taxes, state taxes, fees, etc. Often on non-transport related items.

CCC (formerly CyclistCarCoexist) > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 13:38

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My fond experience with copperopolis, a bike road race in California based on a loop of road that epitomizes unmaintained roads as a highlight of such a race, really hits the nail on failed infrastructure and 300 year cycle roads.

wiffleballtony > Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo 06/10/2017 at 14:05

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A very California solution. More taxes. I’m assuming all the 1%ers in their Tesla are paying their fair share?

wiffleballtony > Nick Has an Exocet 06/10/2017 at 14:05

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Don’t worry, they don’t need the rest of us.

Rusty Vandura - www.tinyurl.com/keepoppo > wiffleballtony 06/10/2017 at 14:24

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They amount to essentially nill of the road usage.

Elumerere > Nick Has an Exocet 06/10/2017 at 15:07

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Everyone always talks about the corruption. Care to cite a source?

Nick Has an Exocet > Elumerere 06/10/2017 at 15:33

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Texas is the only state with more convictions for public corruption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Bell_scandal

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-shrimp-boy-sentenced-20160804-snap-story.html

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-yee-sentence-20160223-story.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-13/oroville-dam-disaster-latest-series-ca-government-corruption-environmental-failures

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/static-ravim/code/cacs/database_project/placeholder/dumps/export.html#California_Corruption_Sample_Data.csv

Elumerere > Nick Has an Exocet 06/10/2017 at 19:05

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Thanks!

I wonder how much of that could have to do with the state actually be willing to go after these cases (compared to other states)..

Nick Has an Exocet > Elumerere 06/10/2017 at 19:23

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I really really really doubt that. I’ve lived in two different states: Massachusetts and California. There is something greasy, slimy, and horrible to California officials in a way I never saw on the east coast. My gut says no.

NojustNo > Nick Has an Exocet 06/11/2017 at 01:27

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Typically transit fares cover about 1/3 to 1/2 of costs. Making them cover 100% would make them too expensive to justify for the public over using over vehicles (and for the working poor). Public transport also helps avoid city gridlock and parking shortages, and helps avoid having to build more new roads by having fewer cars use them...and therefore less associated taxes). Fact is that laying pavement is far more subsidized than public transport.

http://usa.streetsblog.org/2011/12/12/transit’s-not-sucking-the-taxpayer-dry-roads-are

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2008/07/highways_paved_with_gold.html

Tldr: transit costs not covered by fares directly are made up for by other benefits.